(no subject)

[yes_justice]

Red Cross estimates 800 civilians killed in Falluja. Say what you will about Saddam, that brutal tyrant we armed during the Iran Iraq war, but if we hadn't gone in toppled his rule and murdered somewhere in the range of 16,000 confirmed and 100,000 estimated Iraqi civilians in the process, then yes Saddam would still remain in power today - however Margaret Hassan would still be alive and the 10,156 United States soldiers who are casualties of this war would still be healthy, (1200 killed + 8956 wounded).

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Comments

[geordie.livejournal.com]

Of the wounded about 1/4-1/3 return to action. The guy who shot the wounded and disarmed Iraqi had been shot in the face the previous day. Now that I've had time to think about it I can see that they might have had a problem with Iraqis playing possum. But still...

The comic is an interesting thing, Japan did actually attack the US. The Japanese government gave the orders and their navy carried them out.

Saudi Arabia attacked the US from Afghanistan. So why are we in Iraq? Why are we not doing a proper job of cleaning up Afghanistan?

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Of the wounded about 1/4-1/3 return to action.

I used the "offical" casualty number. I wonder if they go back?
Note that un-offical numbers are saying 17,000 passed through hospitals.
Then there is the mental side, which is more difficult to estimate. A bit less than 1/2 of the homeless are vets in SF area.

The guy who shot the wounded and disarmed Iraqi had been shot in the face the previous day.

And they get "pep pills" I hear. Not a good recipe. I know bad folks were holed up in Falluja, but I question if it was worth the politcal damage.


Now that I've had time to think about it I can see that they might have had a problem with Iraqis playing possum.

At least the Marines have a line to cross. Those who killed Hassan don't.

Two points...

[teapolitik.livejournal.com]

Japan did actually attack the US.

That's only partly true. Recognized US territory was never attacked by Japan, only a colony occupied by the US militarily.

Saudi Arabia attacked the US from Afghanistan.

Whatever the House of Saud's complicity in the event, the state did not order a military attack on the US.

Re: Two points...

[geordie.livejournal.com]

OK, so at that time Hawaii wasn't a state? Interesting. Japan did, however, deliver a formal declaration of war. The Japanese also invaded the US, at least if you count the Aleutian islands.

http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/aleutians.htm


It was not my intent to say that the Saudi state ordered the attack, but then the state and the family are much the same thing there so I should have been more careful.

800 min

[hfx-ben.livejournal.com]

That's likely 800 names collected. So another 100 or 200 that have been documented, but the paperwork is only in the pipeline. And then another 200 or 300 who are known dead, but the paperwork hasn't been done. And then another 300 or 400 who are known missing, but not located. Then another 200 - 300 who will die of wounds. And then ?what? 200 - 500 buried in debris?

If there's 800 known dead at the moment, I'd guess civilian toll is something like 2K.

BTW: Marines are going on record saying that it's proper to shoot insurgents who've been disarmed, including injured. Their COs should be court martialed or face war crimes trials. The line is being drawn by Bush and company. But don't expect them to drop the mask of democracy; the real signal will be when one or the other of those psychos (perhaps Perls) makes a few "inadvertant" remarks to the effect that democracy has never really worked all that well, and wasn't really what the Framers of the constitution intended.

The only thing I've doubted, all these years, was whether community would exist when the time came. I watched the militarists organize, and the corporists too, in their manner. But activists? Saturday militants ... ooops ...

In the immortal words: I'm fucked.

Re: 800 min

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

I'd guess civilian toll is something like 2K

Sadly, I agree.

Marines are going on record saying that it's proper to shoot insurgents who've been disarmed

Shit. I would have bought the rotten apple thing, but I guess they veil is off these days.

It is important that there is a line. A rule of law beyond the jungle. Without it, what are we?


perhaps Perls) makes a few "inadvertant" remarks to the effect that democracy has never really worked all that well, and wasn't really what the Framers of the constitution intended.

I could see Perle saying just that...then spouting an enlightened monarchy line. He certainly is contemptuous of democracticly elected leaders of Palestine.


But activists? Saturday militants ... ooops ...

That's right tho....

In the immortal words: I'm fucked.

Hey, common ground!

Re: 800 min

[hfx-ben.livejournal.com]

The veil is off ... maybe that's what the dialectic of history requires.

As for common ground, I'm very glad to disagree with you on this: my earning years are behind me, and my feet don't work hardly at all ... I don't want you to share that.
As for the rest of the scenario, now's the period in my life to make good use of whatever I've brought into being ... zilch.
If my life isn't even a cautionary tale then it really was a waste.